Nice to find this tribe, though I seem to have stumbled upon it after the party has already ended. Not a lot of recent activity anyway.
I am wondering about two things and wanting to get other people's perspectives. Sometimes I notice that I am attracted to men of different races from mine at a purely physical level, and don't understand why that is. I certainly have been presented with many cultural images of attractive black men, but rarely get turned on by black male bodies the way I am by those of men of other races. I sometimes find a black man very handsome, but there always feels like there is something missing. I might see his handsomeness but still not actually feel strong desire for him.
A black male friend of mine once summed it up more bluntly than I would myself speak and I'm a little embarrased to even repeat it, but feel pressed to because it is so to the point. He said, "either you're into black d_#&*s (insert common phrase for male "members") or you're into white d_#&*s." To him it was an open and shut case and there was nothing more to say about it. I guess I might agree except that I don't want to just go with social programming and effectively accept racism within myself, if that's what it is.
On another note, I find that many times I'm not attracted to the white men who come on to me (usually with lines about my being a beautiful black woman or how they love black women), yet men in general seem to only take a woman as a serious relationship prospect if they approach her first. So that puts me in a difficult situation when it comes to meeting viable partners. I don't want someone who just likes black women and only sees me as that. Yet white men who don't seem to frequently (or exclusively) date black women don't approach me very often.
In both cases it strikes me as a type of racism. I am being seen as a black woman not as a woman and they either want a black woman or they don't want a black woman. Yet my self-identity is as a person with a number of characteristics, which among them is that I am black. My racial characteristic has a huge affect on my life and therefore on the content of my personality and my wisdom, to be sure, but it isn't my identity.
Is anyone relating to what I'm saying? Basically, I am wondering what affect racism has on my preferences for non-black men and what affect it has on my own difficulty in being related to as a potential life partner. Is it all okay, and to each their own, or is it worthwhile to look at these tendencies within oneself and try to overcome them in the same way we would want any type of racist to work at opening their minds?
I am wondering about two things and wanting to get other people's perspectives. Sometimes I notice that I am attracted to men of different races from mine at a purely physical level, and don't understand why that is. I certainly have been presented with many cultural images of attractive black men, but rarely get turned on by black male bodies the way I am by those of men of other races. I sometimes find a black man very handsome, but there always feels like there is something missing. I might see his handsomeness but still not actually feel strong desire for him.
A black male friend of mine once summed it up more bluntly than I would myself speak and I'm a little embarrased to even repeat it, but feel pressed to because it is so to the point. He said, "either you're into black d_#&*s (insert common phrase for male "members") or you're into white d_#&*s." To him it was an open and shut case and there was nothing more to say about it. I guess I might agree except that I don't want to just go with social programming and effectively accept racism within myself, if that's what it is.
On another note, I find that many times I'm not attracted to the white men who come on to me (usually with lines about my being a beautiful black woman or how they love black women), yet men in general seem to only take a woman as a serious relationship prospect if they approach her first. So that puts me in a difficult situation when it comes to meeting viable partners. I don't want someone who just likes black women and only sees me as that. Yet white men who don't seem to frequently (or exclusively) date black women don't approach me very often.
In both cases it strikes me as a type of racism. I am being seen as a black woman not as a woman and they either want a black woman or they don't want a black woman. Yet my self-identity is as a person with a number of characteristics, which among them is that I am black. My racial characteristic has a huge affect on my life and therefore on the content of my personality and my wisdom, to be sure, but it isn't my identity.
Is anyone relating to what I'm saying? Basically, I am wondering what affect racism has on my preferences for non-black men and what affect it has on my own difficulty in being related to as a potential life partner. Is it all okay, and to each their own, or is it worthwhile to look at these tendencies within oneself and try to overcome them in the same way we would want any type of racist to work at opening their minds?
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Sat, June 10, 2006 - 8:46 PMOh stop beating yourself up girl! Don't believe the hype!
If it weren't for the opinions, definitions and traditions of a host of other people who don't know YOU, there would be no need for you to ask yourself these questions. So why do it now?
There are enough people of every melanin level on the planet for you to choose from. Your individual preference is not a betrayal and it certainly isn't an 'ism'. Be you, whoever that is, so long as you do no infringe on the rights of others to do the same, and you'll be alright!
As for finding the right mister indi? that's a hard search no matter what skin tone he has! meeting that one in a million who gels with your total chemistry takes time. and he'll probably show up at a time when you're not even looking! -
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!HOT FOR BARBIE! (wtf?)
Sun, June 11, 2006 - 3:08 PMI'm still trying to get over this expectation that I'm supposed to be into blond women -- beause they're the highest whatever, have more fun, gentlemen-prefer-bs -
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Re: !HOT FOR BARBIE! (wtf?)
Tue, June 13, 2006 - 9:06 PMI think it is bold and honest to at least inquire and it is a testiment of your intellect. I had a boss once whom witnessed a most lovely passing Hello between me and a divine woman who was black and he almost burst my bubble when he said ,"So, you like black-girls?"Well I told him I adore women this way and not girls and skin color isn't the joy of our exchange. I hate to be put in a box myself and though I had a child with a woman of the African diaspora and often date similarly my relations have always been the evolution of adoration and intellect which find a harmony.Could I have a reverse rasism?...no,....the Earth is blessed by the presence of all women and and I am and have been blessed by love in all it's shades.
---------!HOT FOR BARBIE! (wtf?)--When I was raising babes we had a rule against Barbies,...then I saw my moms modelling photos and realised she looked similar and that we were being a tad racist refusing our child a doll that looks like my mom(and sister) looked. I did however enjoy hunting down the rare Black (and Indian)dolls to be fare to our diversity. -
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WHOO-AHHH!!!
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 8:37 AMGreg -- wordy, but well written. Don't get me wrong about the 'wordy' -- that's the whole pot/kettle/black thing.
I went back to collegiet studies for a quarter's-worth of a tech study. Every once in a while, the instructor -- who for the most part was a good bloke & tried to break up the class with some levity -- would loose a bit of discression and point this same question at different students during class (as in 'in the audience of the whole class') that basically came across as "Are you stupid?!" (I don't remember the exact content). The response felt like "Um, no, actually I'm not, but the way you have impunged my charactre in front of my peers, you're sure making me look stupid, *ss-hair!" Very un-pro ... anyway ...
So there's this one guy in the class -- seemed to already know all the course material, not sure why he was there really. So this is a computer class, and this guy looks like Bill Gates red-haired kid brother -- no kidding -- it was creepy. So this one day, whatever-whatever happens, and the instructor points this standard issue "Are you stOOpid?" question at this guy. Mini-Bill Gates The Red stopped what he was doing in the same way the rest of us twitched when the question had been pointed at us, and then he was cool -- composed, he said back to the instructor "What do you mean by that?"
I love that, and I've remembered it ... don't think I've used it yet, but I hope to remember it when/if the appropriate occasion occurrs. Puts the question back on the person who asked the initial question, suggests a respect that the initial asker has something to say but maybe isn't getting the words they want out, puts them on the spot to clarify WTF they're getting at, and suggests that they've conduced themselves in a less than becoming fashion. Puts them in a position to take responsibility for their actions instead of you -- also gives you an opportunity to compose yourself and get information on them toward forming your answer, if you're going to anser.
When mini-BillG asked the instructor this question -- sobered the F'er right up -- he stopped, just as the class did, pregnant pause, and then the teacher did the quick-eat-hat-&-appologize act ***and never asked that question again in the class***. WHOO-AHHH!!!
(see, I'm wordy too)
Not saying you did anything wrong with your approach, but suggesting another option -- I would hope to use this "What do you mean by that?" question to this cow-orker/boss-bloke.
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 5:16 AMI'm with Dee-Elle on this one, Indi. I have a feeling she's just reminding you of what you already know: be true to yourself, and be into who you're into, without apologies or explanation.
I think you have good instincts to avoid men who have a fetish about black women. Sure, they won't always objectify you, but it seems like there's a good chance of it. There are men who will love you even if they don't only date black women. As Dee-Elle said, finding the right one is a hard search but he's out there.
I thought this article from the Onion apropos:
www.theonion.com/content/node/31695
Keep us posted. -
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 2:25 PMhaha! funny Onion post Rendall, i think it speaks to the stereotype of interracial relationships today...as if to say that people who are in them are with that particular person for the wrong reasons. stand-up comics are always making jokes to this matter (i.e. black pro basketball players who date white women). people should be free to like who they like without judgment from anyone or even themselves.
a comment was made earlier about friendly plesantries being exhange between two co-workers or something like that...a similar situation happened to me a while back....i was entering the grocery store and reaching for the cart when a worker (white guy) came up to me and said, "hello, let me help you get that cart.". i said thanks and moved on...but right before i left i heard his co-worker (white girl) say, "oh you like dark meat?" i thought WTF! the guy was just doing his job, by greeting customers as they entered the store!
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 11:37 PM>>"oh you like dark meat?" i thought WTF! the guy was just doing his job, by greeting customers as they entered the store! <<
Pretty galling. I've had to deal with that when I've had black girlfriends, often from friends. They say the stupidest things so casually.
Recently, a woman friend of mine, who is black, went on and on and on about how black men and white women who get together are sick, venal. She kept trying to get me to agree. It was like this vortex of neurosis and I started to feel my mind warping. But she was hurting because of her ex husband, so I stayed quiet while she vented.
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 9:34 PMThe Onion thing was funny. Thanks for that.
Yeah, I guess I have to just accept that while certain behaviors and attitudes can be "worked on" sexual attraction probably isn't one of them. By a certain age, you like what you like, and it doesn't help to try to change that. You can only supress yourself and perhaps enter into false relationships with people you aren't really that attracted to. That's not fair to them or to oneself. And I think there's a difference between being racist and having attractions to different attributes people have that may occur along racial lines. It isn't because of the race, it's irrelevant of it, sort of.
There is certainly a huge amount of brainwashing and social "policing" going on trying to convince everyone who they are supposed to like. In my experience many white women do seem to feel they have some vested interested in making sure that no white man might possibly prefer a black woman above them. I think they resigned the whole asian woman thing long ago, at least in California, since at least half the time you see a young Asian woman with a man there it's a white man she's with. But there is still an unexamined assumption that a white woman should be more desirable to any man than a black woman, and that I definitely believe to be a reflection of racism.
I don't think I am racist to prefer non-black men, I just don't know for sure and don't want to be anything like the women who do play race politics when it comes to love. Social feedback has a big effect on most people and it's terribly unfortunate that people are being shamed for simply choosing to be kind and open to people who don't look the same as themselves. -
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 11:59 PMI try to really focus on what the person brings to me, and also on what I can offer, whatever her color.
I say, if you can turn off the critical voice in your head, and keep your attention on how someone acts and makes you feel, no one can criticize how you choose to relate to him or not.
I think the critical voice does far more harm than good. I ruthlessly shut it down if it raises its volume more than a silent whisper. That inner critical voice has talked me out of more good situations that I can count.
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Fri, July 6, 2007 - 3:38 PMI think I understand and relate to what your saying. I've often felt the same about black women. For instance I didn't ever mind the idea of a white guy with a black wife. But for me personally I never entertained it. I did occasionally find a black girl attractive but not always. Even to this day on t.v. for instance I often "see" the white girls before the black girls. about 7 years ago I was probably at my worst at that time I wouldn't even entertain the idea of dating a black girl thinking them gross. I honestly regret such thoughts and no longer carry them with me. I've managed to open my self up to the beauty of black women and sorely wish to try dating them. Two things worry me. Is my only hope of meeting a black woman to learn to love hip hop or soul? Cause I'm into Rock and I don't see alot of black girls into the rock/punk scene. Plus I haven't listened to any hip hop other than cypress Hill since I was 17. And why is it I still have a hard time seeing myself waking up to a black wife with mixed color children? If I had to wager a guess I'd say part of the last question comes from cultural standards. The "Barbie Doll Standard" the second I think has to do with my experience with mix race couples. Where I come from it's usually A black man and white woman, there's usually drugs invovled, she often has several chidlren, and welfare. Any way what ever it is is unacceptable, but I'll get over it like I have the other thing.
I think where I've managed to end up though is with an appreciation of all Human women, seeing them all as my Human sisters and wishing to have a solid relationship with them all. So it's for instance not a preference for black women which draws me to this tribe but a sense of longing to unite emotionally and physically with someone who is deeply human. And in the end I don't care about her skin color or her religion. I care that she's Human and loves me.
Well I dunno if you found that helpful but I think I did. Thanks for the discussion I just hope I
didn't make myself look like a jerk. Love
-Russ -
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Sat, July 14, 2007 - 1:40 PM"look like a jerk"? dude... -
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Wed, July 18, 2007 - 1:10 PMI love all types of music but am very fond of rock n roll. Mick Jagger is to die for ;-) -
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Sun, August 19, 2007 - 1:20 PM*eep*
russ does need to get out more....um...sistas who are into more than two genres of music DO INFACT exist...i know it sounds crazy...but true
and....not all couples with mixed chilren are like that..actually i'min a coffee house in denton texas right now..and across from me is a white male..his black wife..and their beautiful daughter.
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Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Fri, July 27, 2007 - 10:39 PMoh, sir russ, you DO need to get out a bit more! i didn't get any sort of voucher or stamp on my forehead at birth that listed the types of music i was inherently expected to prefer...wouldn't make difference if i had anyway.... you don't have to wear a mohawk to enjoy the sex pistols, and you don't need to sport an afro to enjoy mos def...
now go out and get your self a date with a nice girl, and don't worry about being tainted by her CD collection!
p.s. black wives and mixed children can put a smile in your heart just as easily as peaches and cream...ask my husband!
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Unsu...
Re: Bare Honesty - Are we racists?
Sat, August 18, 2007 - 11:47 PMHi Indi. First of all, you must realize that there is a real double standard out there when it comes to bf/wm relationships. Even though black men date outside FAAAARRRRRR more, they have a real problem when a black woman does it (from experience). Don't let ANYONE make you feel bad for what you like. I think there are guys who just like women, it's just a matter of going to where they are, they need to speak up as well, but they exist (when you find them, let me know, lol). Try going online and most importantly, surround yourself with positive people and images.
bfinterracialmarriage.blogspot.com/